Marine Enlisted Aviation

Do the Marines still use enlisted guys as Navigators? Also, anybody here have any experience as an Enlisted flyer such as loadmasters, Navs, Comm, Flight engineers? Any info would be appreciated.

[Coota0]

The Marines use Naval Flight Officers (NFO, same thing as Goose in Topgun) as nvigators, so no Officers are used as Navigators not enlisted guys.

actually I know for sure back in the day it was enlisted guys doing NAV. What little info i can find still has nav's as an enlisted MOS. I have also read that the last class has already gone through, since the c-130j's do not require navs.

got anything on gunner's loads, FE's?

[Coota0]

I stand corrected

[USMCRET6391]

On C-130s Navigators were enlisted personnel, as were load masters and etc. I hadnt known the the new C-130j didnt require a navigator....thanks for the info

Could anyone tell me what training is required to become a helicopter crew chief?

[USMCRET6391]

In the Marine Coors a crew chief is generally a senior mech who trains for the job. What the requirements are vary with A/C type.

[Coota0]

Are they called Plane Captains on choppers too?

[The Proud]

I am a 6174 UH-1N (Huey) Crewchief. Basically a mechanic that also has to learn weapons systems, a little about what an airframer does, a little about avionics components, and also flight characteristics, aircraft dimensions, limitations, and become a gunner on the M240, GAU-16, and GAU-17. We are jacks of all trades, and flying mechs. It is our job to assist the pilots in landing into confined areas, fire the weapons, perform hoisting operations, look after all cargo and passengers, whatever needs to be done. One of the requirements in being a Crewchief is to also be a plane captain, which means you need to know almost everything about your aircraft, it's components, and what it's limitations are. It is alot of work and alot of school. You go to Pensacola for about a month to swim your ass off and learn egress techniques. Then you go to SERE school, then off to the mechanical school particular to your airframe, then to a school where you learn how to fly as a Crewchief. Once you finally do make it to a squadron you put in insane hours your first few months. I worked from 5:30am till as late as 1:00am many times. And then had to study for about 30min after that for my flight the next day. Usually your day is about 14-15hrs. Constantly doing something, very short chow breaks, if at all. Most times I eat while flying or running from one job to the other. You also learn how to test and rig the engines, perform vibrex tests and many other jobs. That being said it is still the best enlisted job in the Marine Corps in my opinion.

C-130's have load masters - it is not really a combat MOS and they fly alot more. They used to have navigators, but computers replaced them. If you want to be aircrew, you had better be able to think on your feet, handle stress very well, be able to put up with alot of crap and have an exceptional work ethic. Especially if you want to go Huey's/Cobras. Pilots and crewchief's lives depend upon your integrity when inspecting an aircraft and certifying it safe for flight. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[echo7]

Originally Posted by superman462003

Do the Marines still use enlisted guys as Navigators? Also, anybody here have any experience as an Enlisted flyer such as loadmasters, Navs, Comm, Flight engineers? Any info would be appreciated.

what do you want to know?

well, it was mentioned before, about swimming my ass off at Pensacola, should I start preparing now? What's the lifestyle like? I know we had it the best in the AF. I'd like to know a little about the comm/observer/load school too.

This was mentioned to me earlier today, when i go back to active duty it will be as if i was re-enlisting instead of comming in fresh off the street. this would affect the jobs out there that are available. Anybody know what this means?

Thanks for the input so far guys.

[The Proud]

Well, coming from Aircrew Candidate School in Pensacola my orders were to Loadmaster School for C-130's. But talking to a couple of SSgts that were Loadmaster about their job, I decided it wasn't what I was after. They rack up tons of hours but it is all from thousands of feet in the air.. They don't have a major combat role, Loadmaster don't mech very much....it wasn't me. You have to know what is right for you. Being covered in engine oil, huffing JP-5 fumes, popping up at the enemy from 75ft AGL and blasting away with a .50cal is me. Being a Loadmaster is challenging and requires you to use math and they also do some cool stuff like air drops and mid air refueling, but it isn't as good as flying nap of the earth at 70knots and then hitting 60 degrees AOB and just feeling the aircraft shudder from it all and listening to the deafening WHOP WHOP WHOP of the blades as they beat the air to maintain flight. And that is just the cheesy training stuff. Spy rigging, DACM's, Gun Runs during low light conditions...Hueys Rock! So I did what you should always do when you need something big - I went to the Gunny and he graciously changed my orders.

As for swimming, try to get the strokes down as best you can in boot camp. P-Cola guys are very picky about how you do the strokes. It's all about the strokes. The whole point is to be able to swim long distances. In the end you have to swim a mile in a flight suit in under 80min using only the strokes they teach you. Don't try too hard now, it will only cause you to develop bad habits that you will have to unlearn.

The lifestyle of aircrew or of a Marine? For aircrew each platform is different as to how you are treated. All I can speak to is Skids because that's all I know. It sucks when you first check in. You have no life. Working all the time and studying when your not working. Seriously - you have no life. You pull all the worst jobs too. But once you start picking up quals (Huey and/or Cobra plane captain) learn how to test and become an asset to your squadron the later you come in and the earlier you leave.

Like I said before, if you want to be a Crewchief you had better have an exceptional work ethic, good study habits, and be able to multi-task your ass off. In the air you are listening to multiple radios, scanning gauges, keeping an eye out for obstacles, always knowing where the other aircraft in your section are, looking out for other aircraft, trouble shooting jams on your gun, calling your approach into your zone, shooting....all at the same time. On top of it all you could be doing these things at night on goggles during low light and/or dealing with guys on the ground talking you onto a target that have limited to know experience calling air support and get everything messed up.

Then on the ground you are expected to be as good as the mechs who devote all their time to being a mechanic and don't have to think about anything else. Trannys have to be replaced, engines need to be rigged, gearboxes have to serviced, rotors have to be tracked and balanced, tested for vibrations, things need to be greased, Daily and Turnaround inspections have to be completed.........plus you need to know a little about other people's jobs too like ordnance - you will know more about and maintain the crew served weapons than the guys that work in ordnance. We shoot em we clean em. Avionics - electrical systems go down all the time and you may not always have Avi guys there to fix it. You have to troubleshoot the problem and get back out there and complete the mission. Airframes - our flight controls run by hydraulics and if they fail you better have atleast some knowledge of the system and how to fix it or work around it.

Obviously other rotary wing platforms will have different challenges and pressures and fix wing is completely different but in the end aircrew is aircrew and alot is demanded of us. There is a reason the school has the third highest attrition rate in the Marine Corps. It's all you. What kind of person are you and what are you looking for? One of my best friends from boot camp was more of a C-130 guy so he stuck with that and loves it as much as I love my job. When I was here a year ago there was an Army WO pilot who came here. He could give you a pilot's perspective on crewchiefs.

[The Proud]

I just read your background/old posts - you'd know more about the loadmaster gig than I do. But if you do go the Marine Aircrew route you may want to at least fake some humility. I was and still am a cocky bastard too. Flightliners eat that attitude up. Someone one with combat aircrew wings with three stars will come along and turn you into nothing real fast. It's all about quals bro and you have none. No one is gunna care about the air force stint either.

hard work..........long hours...........picking up BS jobs...........flying shooting and wearing a flight suit? LET ME PACK AWAY THIS HARD-ON AND SIGN UP NOW hahahahaha!

No seriously, i think that if something isnt worth working hard for, then it probably isn't worth much anyway. AVIATION - FUCK YEA!

I think my time as enlisted aviation in the AF will help out a lot. we are the only career field that requires 80% or better on tests to pass. i miss the job a lot.

Well, let me ask you this.....what is it like to be a Marine who serves in an air wing? aside from your job as mentioned before. Basically outside of work, and around the squadron kinda stuff.