Army creates new combat badge for non-infantry soldiers

I'd listen to Wrangler, he wears BOTH of his CIB's everyday

Originally Posted by AntiArmorGrunt

I don't think it's bullshit at all. Anybody in the Army knows that the infantry gets the CIB any no one else. It's been that way since it was created back in the 40's. If they wanted the badges they should have gone through the training plain and simple.

I mean no offense when I say this but half of you aren't even infantry anyways so of course you're going to say 'hey, just give it to everybody' because it means nothing to you whatsoever.

USMC - as a former Marine myself I understand the CAR and how it works but here is something that you may be able to relate to. In my PLDC class there were about 3-4 soldiers who were 'attached' to 1MarDiv during the initial invasion of Iraq. They now wear NAMs, CARs AND a Guadalcanal patch on their right shoulder. These soldiers don't know the meaning of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and have not earned the right to wear anything related to the Corps but they still wear it. Do you think they should be allowed to wear those?

Those assholes have no right to wear the 1 MAR DIV on their right shoulder.
Some leg ass Army General begged the Corps to allow the patch to be worn, another "feel good" blanket policy.
I agree with you 110%.

[USMCRET6391]

Originally Posted by AntiArmorGrunt

USMC - as a former Marine myself I understand the CAR and how it works but here is something that you may be able to relate to. In my PLDC class there were about 3-4 soldiers who were 'attached' to 1MarDiv during the initial invasion of Iraq. They now wear NAMs, CARs AND a Guadalcanal patch on their right shoulder. These soldiers don't know the meaning of the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and have not earned the right to wear anything related to the Corps but they still wear it. Do you think they should be allowed to wear those?

Originally Posted by AntiArmorGrunt

I'd also like to add that even former Marines that were in combat as Marines that go to the Army are not authorized to wear Marine combat patches on their BDUs..

I suppose it is because the Marine Corps has never been big on separating out it's "grunts" from the rest of the Corps (All Marines are Riflemen first) and never developed a system that says you are a grunt, you are an airwinger, you are a cook that was worn on our uniforms. My stance in all of this is simple. Unit patches, badges, cords are used to show unit pride and that "you have been there". I have a whole collection of Sqd patches that I collected from the units I served with when I was in the Corps. Did I pitch a bitch because I couldnt wear them on a flight jacket when I was in uniform? All of these little do-dads should not be symbols of status or methods to undermine the cohesion of the forces. Do I think the army should be allowed to wear the 1st Marine Divison's Guadacanal Patch? Hell no, but if their egos are so small they have to let 'em, we all know who really earned the right. And to be honest I dont think any one should wear the thing if they didnt serve on the "Canal" in WWII. That gentlemen is my .02 worth.

Originally Posted by AntiArmorGrunt

USMC I agree with you about the badges, patches and what not for the Marines. What you're forgetting is that soldiers are not all riflemen first. They don't go through MCT like every Marine does.

Even a Marine admin clerk can pick up a rifle, break contact, do near and far ambushes and all that great stuff. The common soldier who goes through basic training somewhere like Fort Jackson or what not doesn't. They aren't given the basic infantry skills needed to perform in combat. That's why the infantry likes to seperate themselves from the rest so to speak. I think though if your MOS had a special identifier for being in direct combat that only you could get and then all of a sudden they wanted to just hand it out to everyone and their brother you might feel a little differently.

Ranger Kilted Heathen, I'm glad I have your support on the subject. I'm a member of ArmyRanger.com and it's good to see one of the Rangers coming over to the site!

Semper Fi and FOLLOW ME!

There's a few of us eyeballing things over here now.

[USMCRET6391]

Originally Posted by kilted heathen

There's a few of us eyeballing things over here now.

From what I saw Roms post in another thread, I would tell them not to bother if you are an example of what we can expect.

[USAFDefender]

Has anyone looked at the uniforms in the Air Force? Everyone gets to wear a badge. It would appear that this new badge has been created out of jelousy of the infantry.

Are you talking about the function badge that denotes your career field? Bad example.

Also, I've read alot here about how it feels to have something given away, yadda yadda. However, am I wrong that the CIB is still infantry only? If there's a non-infantry designated combat badge, why does that get your panties in a bunch? Noone is giving your CIB away, that's still infantry only. So your examples about giving away SF tabs and USMC badges is completely irrelavant since that pertains to them giving their actual designators away.

If anything, I think the Army chose this way to accomodate both those brave soldiers that were involved in combat that weren't infantry without giving away something the infantry obviously hold dear, the CIB.

The soldier who has taken hostile fire, engaged the enemy, and lived to tell the story just to come home and say he doesn't have the right to be recognized because of his MOS has much more ground to complain than those who are upset because non-infantry kinda sorta almost has a badge similar to the CIB.

[Turtledrive]

I am going to have to agree with field sailor on this one. The way the army is set up it is great for the infantry to get special recognition as they are the oldest branch, there is a lot of history there. I also think that the "combat" MOS's should receive special distinction such as the scouts who find the enemy and shot the infantry where they are often fighting with alongside them. Or the artillery guys right there with the infantry. I would be in support of a CAR for everyone else.

[ScreaminChief]

Let me tell you a little story. My former team chief came back from Iraq last year. He was engaged in several firefights with both small arms and the mounted weapons on his B-FIST, (Bradly). He has engaged and killed the enemy at close range. In fact, there was so much blood on his desert boots that they are unservicable. He more than qualified himself to be awarded a CIB. Plus the fact that he already completed the EIB course. However, because he is a FISTer like me, he can't wear it. A lot of soldiers, FISTers and Cav Scouts especially, are doing the same jobs as infantrymen over there. We, (13F and 19D), are able to take every special school the Army has to offer because of the nature of our jobs. We are not, however, authorized to wear the badge awarded for all these schools. That is why I'm glad to see this badge being created.

Now having said that, do soldiers need to wear badges all over the left side of their uniform? I don't know. It's a personal choice. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting recognition for what they've achieved. I know another FISTer who just left Korea that could have worn 3 badges, plus he earned 2 more he wasn't authorized to wear because of his MOS. He chose to wear only 1. Like I said, it's a personal choice.

Finally, don't get in the mindset that anyone who isn't 11B is a pogue. There are some hardcore MOS's out there that aren't infantry, and I'd square off with anyone who tried to call me a pogue. BTW, my old team chief does get to wear one thing from Iraq besides his 3rd ACR combat patch. A bronze star for valor.

[USMCRET6391]

Originally Posted by ScreaminChief

Let me tell you a little story. My former team chief came back from Iraq last year. He was engaged in several firefights with both small arms and the mounted weapons on his B-FIST, (Bradly). He has engaged and killed the enemy at close range. In fact, there was so much blood on his desert boots that they are unservicable. He more than qualified himself to be awarded a CIB. Plus the fact that he already completed the EIB course. However, because he is a FISTer like me, he can't wear it. A lot of soldiers, FISTers and Cav Scouts especially, are doing the same jobs as infantrymen over there. We, (13F and 19D), are able to take every special school the Army has to offer because of the nature of our jobs. We are not, however, authorized to wear the badge awarded for all these schools. That is why I'm glad to see this badge being created.

Now having said that, do soldiers need to wear badges all over the left side of their uniform? I don't know. It's a personal choice. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting recognition for what they've achieved. I know another FISTer who just left Korea that could have worn 3 badges, plus he earned 2 more he wasn't authorized to wear because of his MOS. He chose to wear only 1. Like I said, it's a personal choice.

Finally, don't get in the mindset that anyone who isn't 11B is a pogue. There are some hardcore MOS's out there that aren't infantry, and I'd square off with anyone who tried to call me a pogue. BTW, my old team chief does get to wear one thing from Iraq besides his 3rd ACR combat patch. A bronze star for valor.

I would like to echo this from other wars. were the "Pogues" who helped hold Bastogne any less combat Soldiers than the front line Soldiers of the 101st? Were the "Pogues" who helped hold the Line at the Pusan Perimeter any less combat soldeirs than the fromt line grunts who helped hold that line? Were the Pogues who fought countless fire fights during "Tet" in 1968 any less Combat Soldiers than the "grunts"? And finally, were the door gunners and crew cheifs who flew "Dust Off Missions" in Nam any less combat soldiers than the "grunts they saved? Why not give the the recognition they deserve? The badges dont even look the same. I am not an Army vet, however from reading this thread it is rather obvious to me that it is not not the "Pogues" who have the problem.

[Turtledrive]

What the problem is is that some in the infantry are afraid that their heritage is being threatoned. This is not true, they did not earn the distinct privilidge to wear the infantry blue. The army has decided to keep this sacred to the infantry (as sthey should) by creating another award for others who fight right along side or in liu of the infantry. I have held several MOS's on of which is infantry. When I was a 19D if someone had an infantry specific badge IE the EIB they were questioned and made to prove they were elegible to wear it. Noone is trying to detract from the infantry, they are simply trying to give recognition to the others who are right there doing the same thing along side them.

[Field_Sailor]

Everyone the world around will agree the American Infantry (USMC and USA) are the best around. The Infantry is extremely rich with history. History that no one can trample or challenge. A combat vet is a combat vet! I see why Infantrymen are upset. It's something you hold near, something no one else should wear, however, noone else is wearing it. Listen at your arguments. WHen the Rangers had their Black Beret given away, I was among the first people to say it was BS (to my Army friends). This isn't the same. RANGERs earned they Berets with Blood, Sweat and Balls. Infantrymen earned their CIB with Blood, Sweat and Balls. These new Soldiers will earn their CCB with Blood, Sweat and Balls.

And for whomever says that we (or I) don't know what I'm takling about because I haven't earned one. I know what it feels like to have things that are held as a sense of pride for a particular branch taken away or given to others.

For the reference to the AF's Job abdges, it's just like Sailors, we wear our job on our uniform, that argument doesn't fly here.

[USMCRET6391]

Originally Posted by field_sailor

For the reference to the AF's Job abdges, it's just like Sailors, we wear our job on our uniform, that argument doesn't fly here.

Doesnt the Navy have some sort of Surface Warfare Badge that corresponds to the Submarine Warefare Badge? And when I worked in the East Coast Navy/Marine F-18 replacement Sqd the Sailors were wearing some sort of "Airwing" or "Carrier Service" badge. No trying to snipe here, I am making sure I remember correctly, getting old ya know.