New view of PDR China

Grimmy · 08-17-2005, 08:01 AM

A few times the "China" issue has been brought up here on these forums. Each time I'd notice the threads I'd post my thoughts on the issue. Those thoughts generally were in the "yeah right, aint gonna happen" vien.

Well, as occasionally happens I kinda sorta got updated on my opinion. I think I might owe some folk appologies.

I've been tryin to pay attention lately regarding China and here's what I've heard. Bear in mind this is all still rumor, hint and alot of might and maybe.

China has been actively acquiring satalite and anti-satalite tech by both legal and espionage means. Muckity muks in the PDRC have been heard to say that the idea is to hit, cripple or destroy USA global communications infrastructure. PDRC has been rumored to be ramping up efforts in training and organizing "hackers" for the same purpose.

(this part is even less than rumor, more in the "I think I remember hearing somethink like...) PDR China has "visited" the idea of equiping islamofascists with bio/nuke for use within the CONUS in a "plausible deniability" format. PDR China persons known to be members of military intel have been caught crossing our southern boarders.

So, I still think that there wont be a conventional military clash with PDR China but maybe there'll be a big series of "unfortunate events" that allows PDR China to simply take Taiwan without us being able to move.

but then again, maybe I just have my head up my arse again.

AmericanGirl · 08-17-2005, 09:16 AM

Well... Grimmy, I have a lot of respect for you, and for you to step up and say that means alot. I probably wouldn't have much to say about it but I had a political science class my second to last semester... East Asian Politics, taught by a former CIA intelligence analyst, his "focus" was on China, and he went into a lot of detail and outlined some scenarios that would lead us to war over Taiwan... and other conflicts like Korea. I seriously think China is trying to become the next super power...

ArchAngel · 08-17-2005, 12:54 PM

I agree, China is trying to become the next super-power. As for conventional warfare over Taiwan or worse, I really hope it doesn't happen, thought it's leaning more towards that side. I think we needa get our ass outta Iraq and the Middle East before we head into another war, we're gonna get cut thin and something bad is going to happen, if war wasn't bad enough already.

JakeCourtney · 08-17-2005, 01:26 PM

Anyone feeling the gas prices yet? War, Weather, and China are some of the reasons for this. China is booming in its economy right now. Buying up what little oil production the world has and its hurting us. I believe the real reason we are in Iraq right now is to have our guys close to the oil supply. I mean why did we spend so little time in Afganistan before we jumped right on into Iraq. China is becoming a Superpower, but will they try to push their muscle around...

Grimmy · 08-17-2005, 04:49 PM

I do agree that PDR China is "trying" to become the next super power but they've yet to make good on a single World Bank loan. Super power requires stable economy and they're not gonna get there any generation soon. The idiocracy of Maoism is still hammered too deep into their 'collective'. They dont even have a legal sturucture that allows the acquistion of personal or corporate wealth yet.

But...

I do understand the Chinese to be exploitive in their stratagies and tactics and I really do look for them to be attempting/succeeding in using this current uproar as a cover to strike at USA.

I do disagree with ArchAngle in as much as we are currently in this mess mainly because we've not had the starch to stand fast for goin on 4 full decades now and we've let it be known that we can be attacked and we wont stay the course and we can be made to run away.

I disagree with Jake in as much as we have (the USA) a good solid 100 year reserve of oil within CONUS and dont need to pull in outsource for our own needs. We've gotten into the habit of ensureing supply for those of our allies that are resource poor and also into the habit of importing at inflated prices to financially support our "allies" in the mid east.
Yes there is increasing demand on oil sources due to the India and PDR China growth (among others) but the reason we're paying the higher prices currently (and every summer previous) is due to out of control envioro wakos that constatly tie up anyone attempting to produce, ship or refine oil with an endless steam of nonsense legal suites. We could have every super tanker lined up off our coasts with an endless supply of free oil and we'd not have a single drop more available...our needs have surpassed our ability to refine because we've not been allowed to build any new refinery capacity.

And, I believe that the reason we went into Iraq were exactly the reasons stated by our leadership to go into Iraq and I believe the rush to get into Iraq was due to very real potential of threat to US citizens. It's been proven that Iraq did HAVE and POSSESS the ability and capacity to produce WMD on a massive scale at the drop of a hat. It is rather obvious that terrorists (Ansar Al Islam) were deeply entrenched within Iraq prior to the war and there's plenty of evidence already made available of official linkage between Ansar al Islam and the Iraqi leadership.

JakeCourtney · 08-18-2005, 12:44 PM

The threat is deemed to be non-existant now. Let's pull our guy's out.

JakeCourtney · 08-18-2005, 12:48 PM

It's only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan.

AmericanGirl · 08-18-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

The threat is deemed to be non-existant now. Let's pull our guy's out.

- JakeCourtney

What conversation are you following, because when it comes to potential threats to national security, I will guarantee you China is frequently mentioned.

Quote:

It's only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan.

- JakeCourtney

Do you even know what you are talking about? because it isn't real clear on this end.

JakeCourtney · 08-18-2005, 03:25 PM

The threat assesment was with Iraq. In real terms everyone is a threat to us. They don't like the rich-nation superpower.

Vita · 08-23-2005, 10:56 AM

with Russia struggling to gain power again (hence military games with China, can we say "Taiwan?"), and the massive ability to produce oil, China is getting them on their side slowly (even though Russia is weary).

with china buying out as much interest in oil as it sees fit, and increases in global needs for said oil, China being #2 consumer of said oil,

with the new "asia for asians" forums being established by china, excluding US participation, with many nations worried that we (US) are trying to spread our influence too far (agreeable or not),

with even austrailia to the point where it needs to establish positive relations with China, as they ARE growing as a superpower,

China is a real threat to US interests, if only for the fact that China would love to see the US go down, only to take our place as the worlds "strongman"

though it's unlikely in my eyes, consider the fact that with the worlds largest population, we're going to have more Chinese language websites than english language within a decade, they are actually suceeding in establishing aliances with a lot of countries, and even russia has made hints that US entering Iran will cause unpredictable consequences (big oil interest in Iran for China, consider russia a cheerleader...), we've got to watch our step and not piss off too many. whether it will be fought on the battlefield, or on paper, we are at war with China in an energy "cold war" right now, we just don't realize it with our media being as controlled as they are....

i think we need to start making some real positive political moves. 'nuff said...

Grimmy · 08-23-2005, 11:24 AM

China only exists as a potential "super power" for as long as China is allowed endless loans. China has yet to make good on a single loan issue either. China has ZERO legal infrastructure to allow for any real growth.

We've seen this EXACT issue with Brazil in the 1950s and early '60s.

China will not, for a long long long time be any threat in a conventional sense. They can build all the ships and plans and tanks their resources can manage but their Command and Control apparatus is built upon an amalgum of old world corruption, nepotism and Party Loyalty. There is very little, if any, consideration given to excellence in promotions to any possitions of responsibility.

China IS a threat in as much as they are beginning to covertly align with Arab terror organizations. Also they're building of a dedicated hacker community, government owned and operated, with the express intention of colapsing US communications and finance institutions thru innernet exploitation. China has also expressed an interest in acquiring suficient satalite tech to enable themselves to attack our space born military and commercial communicatons on a global scale.

In a real world sense, the only possitive political move we should need to make in regards to China is to make them believe without a shadow of a doubt that if they pull any of that shit they'll simply cease to exist in a series of really bright flashes.
And if they refrain from malicious crap they can continue to recieve and piss away other folks hard earned cash until they grow a clue and start to get shit working on a sustainable level and join the functional world.

Vita · 08-23-2005, 11:34 AM

true, but as long as their gaining favorable support from non-terrorist type entities, the have much potential going for them, and if they stay anti-US, it's bad for us no matter how we look at it. i don't see it as being a military threat anytime soon, but you can be damn sure they want to take back taiwan, even if their plans are deturred in hopes of gaining more global support of the move.

it's a very complex situation, MANY third parties involved, and relies on two key factors, both US and China either playing nice or not with others to put it simply.

China has more reason than ever to build a better reputation, so i see them as "trying" to keep that going, though they can easily slip up, we (the US) on the otherhand, have have to really watch ourselves, and don't have as much care if you would ask me. as much as i hate to say it, we REALLY need to watch our step in a lot of political situations in the coming decade or more. sure, we are THE superpower, but making wrong choices is only going to help others making good choices look good, regardless of intentions. we really need to flex a wise politcal muscle, and i hope we do.