Changes at the Rifle Range

[Vulture6]

The more things change, the more they stay the same -- next up, sateens.






From the Marine Corps Times

250 returns as magic number
September 05, 2005
By Gordon Lubold
Times staff writer


The scoring system for the Corps’ new rifle marksmanship program goes back to the future.

Under the current system, scoring is based on a total of 65, but the new course is based on a total score of 250 — marking a return to a scorecard that was used up until the late 1990s.

Right now, you have to shoot:

• 40 or higher to qualify as expert.

• 35 to 39 for sharpshooter.

• 25 to 34 for marksman.

But under the new scoring system that goes into effect Oct. 1, you’ll have to shoot:

• 220 or better for expert.

• 210 to 219 for sharpshooter.

• 190 to 209 for marksman.

Marines will still fire 50 rounds, but those hits will be counted differently to add up to 250. The Corps is going back to circular targets with a progressive point system. Each of the four rings is worth anywhere between 2 and 5 points. Scoring 5 points with each of the 50 rounds yields a perfect 250. “Dog” targets will still be used during the rapid-fire stages at the 200- and 300-yard lines.

Under the current system, shooters accrue up to 65 points under a scoring system that is predominantly hit or miss. The one exception is the 200-yard line, where shooters can score up to two points during certain stages of fire.

Why does the change matter? Range officers and others say the graduated scoring of the new system inspires Marines to do better than the current hit-or-miss program. Now, shooters can perhaps see more benefit in adjusting for wind or other factors to shoot for a better score.

“It’s a huge benefit when you start talking about confidence and making sight adjustments,” said Capt. Dan Griffiths, assistant marksmanship coordinator with Weapons Training Battalion at Quantico, Va. “If they want to hit black, it’s a little more difficult.”

By the way, Marines can no longer count on qualifying as an expert at the 200-yard-line, as they can now. Under the 65-point system, if a Marine places every round perfectly at the 200-yard line, he could choke at longer distances and still make expert.

Not anymore, Griffiths said.

[USMCRET6391]

LMFAO, if it was such a benefit why did they change it in the first place?

This reminds me of the 1970s when the Corps decided that too many rounds fired in Nam were wasted because the Marines didnt know how to shoot at targets that weren't "Alpha" or "Dog" style. Although the 250 point system was still used in Boot Camp, for requal we went through all sorts of weird target and scoring combinations for a few years before they went back to the 250 point system. Nothing changes a system less than trying to to "tweek" it.

[ArchAngel]

What's the difference of "Alpha" and "Dog" targets?

[SpongeJuan]

Alpha is a circle. Dog looks like a man in the prone position. kinda hard to explain, but you'll know what i'm talking about when you see it. Then you will say, "So that's what spongie was talking about!"

[USMCRET6391]

The Alpha target is a regular bullseye type target; round concentirc rings with the black bullseye being 10 points per round and decreasing in value as you go out rings. It is used for "slow" timed fire on the 200, 300 and 500 meter lines. The Dog target is used for scoring rapid fire (10 rounds fired from either the standing to kneeling or standing prone position in one minute) on the 200 and 300 hundred meter lines. Like sponge said the dog target looks like a man facing you lying on the ground.

[Vulture6]

5 points per round on the rifle range, 10 points per round on the pistol range

[USMCRET6391]

jeeeeze, I gess it's a good thing I retired, my memory is shot all to hell.....thanks vuture for the correction LOL

[SpongeJuan]

Oh, and at the 500 yard line the target is different. There is also no rapid fire at the 500 yardline

[SGRock]

I don't think there ever was

[SpongeJuan]

yeah

[SGRock]

New Marksmanship Training on Okinawa Sets Sights on Combat Readiness
Marine Corps News | By Cpl. Jennifer L. Brown | September 26, 2005
CAMP FOSTER, OKINAWA, Japan - Marines scheduled for the rifle range will see big changes to the marksmanship training program beginning Oct. 1.

Fiscal year 2006 will be used as a test model to improve the marksmanship training program, according to Chief Warrant Officer 2 Martin W. Dankanich, officer in charge of the Camp Hansen Known Distance course.

Shooters will now fire the Known Distance course the Corps uses in recruit training. However, the three phases of marksmanship training have been modified into what are now called four tables.

Table I is basic rifle qualification, Table II is basic combat marksmanship, Table III is intermediate combat marksmanship and Table IV is advanced combat marksmanship.

During Table I, Monday and Tuesday will be preparatory days, and Wednesday will be qualification day, with no exceptions for qualifying early.

“Although we have taken a day away from qualification, we have compensated by adding additional rounds,” Dankanich said. “Shooters will receive five extra rounds at the 200-yard, slow fire and can use them in whichever positions they choose.”

Shooters will fire 90 rounds during tri-fire Monday, 80 rounds Tuesday and 50 rounds Wednesday.
Scoring will also be converted from a 0-65 point method to a system in which shooters can score a maximum 250 points.

“Originally, there was to be a conversion chart since (the two recruit depots) and The Basic School at Quantico were the only duty stations using the three-digit system,” Dankanich said. “Now the Marine Corps has enabled the rest of the Marine Corps to use the three-digit scoring system.”

Shooters must score 190-209 to qualify as a marksman, between 210-219 for sharp shooter, and 220-250 for expert.

Thursday is an introduction to Table II, basic combat marksmanship. There will be a three-hour period of instruction consisting of classroom time and dry fire, and shooters will practice basic combat marksmanship.

Table II consists of shooting multiple targets with limited exposure from a 25-yard distance, vice 300 yards, with a much faster firing time limit. Shooters will go through the stages of fire and walk down the 25-yard range with a condition one weapons and score their own targets, he added.

“Safety must be on (the shooters’) minds at all times,” Dankanich said. “We are training them to think and be aware because that is exactly what we would ask them to do if we sent them to Iraq.”

With the new basic combat marksmanship training, how well the shooters perform will affect their overall score. If a shooter fails Table II, his score will fall to the minimum marksmanship level.

“During the old field fire phase, Marines got nothing out of it but dirty weapons,” Dankanich said. “With basic combat marksmanship, if a shooter does well, there is no increase in his score, but shooters must pass in order to keep their score.”

Tables III and IV are exercised as required by individual units, Dankanich explained.
“We have implemented Tables III and IV into the marksmanship training package, but it will only be required for specific units,” Dankanich said.

Table III includes gas masks and unknown distance night fire, and Table IV is used to enhance the professional marksmanship training program.

With the new range requirements and transitions, Marines will now have to think about their skill level and decide with the coaches how to increase their proficiency, Dankanich said.
“Marines are smart,” he stated, “It’s about time we’ve given them the opportunity to think for themselves in rifle training.”

In addition to the changes in the Known Distance course, improvements have also been made in the sitting, kneeling and standing positions to help increase the shooters’ proficiency and give them greater flexibility.

“We are trying to get away from concentrating on score,” Dankanich said. “Our focus now is more on proficiency. While in a shooting position, a Marine can modify to compensate for his own handicap. The individual’s positioning will be determined between the shooter and the coach.”

Shooters will be allowed to place their forward hand on the slip ring and use their choice of slings, as well as shoot with any rifle in the M16 or M4 families.

I think the changes are good,” said Sgt. Jerome W. McCray, an assistant commanding general’s driver with Marine Wing Headquarters Squadron-1, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing. “I’m looking forward to finding positions that will help me shoot better.”

“We now have a program that can be tailored to Marines’ basic needs,” Dankanich said. “The Marines are going to enjoy it and look forward to doing it again and again.”

Sound Off...What do you think? Join the discussion.

Copyright 2005 Marine Corps News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[bladesroy]

its about time,the corps changed the way mrines qual.in basic training one was issued The Marine Corps Guide Book,in it different forms of firing the weapon was shown,but never implemented.maybe the MarineCorps can also put it into use with this new way of Marksmanship Training. after all one never shoots all the time from behind a wall,or bunker.