Home Portal Blog Links
Go Back   Military Forum > Military Forums: General Discussion > Armed Forces Discussions > Marine Corps Forums > Tun Tavern

Tun Tavern Semper Fi! Tun Tavern still lives today.

Marine Corps General Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2005, 08:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
Administrator

 
Brad's Avatar
 
Group:
Administrator

BradAdmin is Brad isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,402
Threads: 333
UserID: 10
User Info
United_States  army  male  aries  chinese_tiger

Military_Support
My current mood: Unspecified
Reputation +/-Power: 10
Points: 709
Brad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to beholdBrad is a splendid one to behold
BradAdmin is Brad isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Marines go Special Forces

Unconventional Marines
These guys will be special.

By W. Thomas Smith Jr. The U.S. Marine Corps is developing a brand new special-operations force to serve as an element of the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM). Though unique, the force — officially "Marine SOCOM Detachment One" — will be the Corps' participating equivalent of the Navy's SEALs, the Army's special-operations forces (Green Beret, Delta, and other special purpose forces), and the Air Force's special operations units.



Specifics have yet to be finalized regarding the Marine detachment, but the prototype unit has been fighting in Iraq, performing raids against insurgent strongholds and conducting special operations missions.

Fighting is how they train to fight.

According to a report written for SOCOM and obtained by National Review Online, "Repeated successful conduct [by the Marine Detachment] of urban direct action and special reconnaissance, both mounted and dismounted, is an indicator of high agility and tactical effectiveness in what is arguably one of the most challenging combat environments."

The report, "MCSOCOM Proof of Concept Evaluation," adds, "Because USMC units frequently train and operate in field conditions — i.e. rural, coastal, mountainous, etc. — it is logical to suggest that given similar preparation they could operate effectively in a variety of environments."

Considering the overall Corps combat performance, rigorous training, and warrior ethos, many wonder why the Marines are just now coming to the SOCOM table.

"When SOCOM was established in 1986, the Cold War was still on," Gen. Paul X. Kelley, then-Commandant of the Marine Corps, tells NRO. "Parenthetically, I should note that in early 1985, a member of Congress informally wrote to me asking that I 'consider the transfer' of all SOF [special operations forces] to the Marine Corps — with the possible exception of Army Ranger battalions and Navy fleet SEAL assets, to be replaced by USMC raider battalions and Force Recon for theater UW [unconventional warfare] targets. Needless to say, I was not inclined to accept any mission changes that would impact upon our ability to conduct the broad spectrum of missions that Marines were already assigned around the world."

Kelley adds that, as the founding commander of the Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force (the predecessor to the U.S. Central Command), he was "vocal" in his support of SOCOM, but that the Corps already possessed "inherent" special-operations capabilities.

Indeed, Marines fielded then — as they do today — a variety of special units and operators. These include, Force Recon (deep reconnaissance) teams, Reconnaissance Battalions (scouting elements for Marine divisions), ANGLICO (Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Companies), and special radio units, as well as individual leathernecks detached to special operations units from other services.

Also in the mid-1980s, Kelley directed that a program be formed that would enhance the special-operations capabilities of forward deployed Marine Amphibious Units, today known as Marine Expeditionary Units (Special Operations Capable) or MEU (SOC).

SOCOM members or not, Marines have always had a hand in the craft. Special operations units in the Marines are not accorded the same respect as they are in other branches. The Marines view special operations as simply another realm of warfighting. Marines are Marines, and no individual Marine or Marine unit is considered more elite than the other.

Operational independence also was one of the reasons the Corps resisted entry into SOCOM in 1986. And many Army, Navy, and Air Force members had no problem with the Marines lack of formal participation: After all, a SOCOM without Marines meant the other branches each got a larger piece of the pie.

That changed after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when turf battles took a backseat to real world concerns. And post-9/11 operations in Afghanistan and Iraq have only highlighted the need for more direct Marine involvement in SOCOM.

The size of the new Marine detachment is still under consideration.

Last summer, roughly 100 men comprised the prototype unit, which planned and executed more than 20 raids, netting numerous detainees and weapons caches, and killing or capturing at least nine guerilla cell leaders.

"If they bring a full component of 2,500, it will be a special operations Marine Air-Ground Task Force," says U.S. Navy Commander Mark Divine, a SEAL officer who was tasked with observing the prototype unit in action and then writing the Proof of Concept report. "In addition to the air component, you'll have your 'shooters,' who are Recon Marines. Then there will be a logistical component, and a huge intelligence component."

Divine says he does not believe there will be a duplication of efforts between existing SOCOM members, like the SEALs or the Green Berets, and the Marines. Every unit and "shooter" is uniquely trained and equipped, and though they can and do often perform similar missions, they complement one another.

"SEALs, for instance, have developed a unique direct action capability that allows them to
strike a target with a very short planning cycle," he says. "Though the Marine Recon community also trains in direct action, their primary focus has for years been deep reconnaissance, a mission profile they are much better suited for than SEALs. Direct action is something the Marines do well — but for targets where a longer planning cycle and larger footprint of forces is acceptable — something akin to a Ranger-like operation," but with organic air assets.

Retired U.S. Marine Gunnery Sergeant Joseph Vela says direct action is a Marine specialty, as is combat discipline, leadership, and obedience.

"The latter is something that is bred into a Marine when he is born on the parade deck in boot camp," says Vela, a former Marine drill instructor who served with SEALs as a member of a Marine Force Recon team during Gulf War I. "It is this sense of instant, willing, obedience to orders. You tell a Marine to do anything, he's going to snap to attention, say, 'aye aye, sir," and execute whatever it is he is told to do, without question or debate. My experience with other branches of service has been if it is something they don't want to do, you are going to have a problem."

Therein lie the two schools of thought: Unquestioning obedience or thinking outside of the proverbial box. Creative thinking is important for any special operator, but it can also become something of an exposed wire when the situation becomes desperate and time-critical. Vela says SOCOM will only benefit from the Corps' unique approach to both obedience and leadership development (which in itself spawns creative thought).

At this point, the only thing keeping the Marine SOCOM Detachment from being formally stood up is the signature of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

"Is everyone in agreement that this is a good idea?" U.S. Army Major Paul Swiergosz, a Defense Department spokesman, tells NRO. "Secretary Rumsfeld thinks it is, so everyone else does too. Is there a piece of paper that actually says this is how we're going to operate and do business? Not yet."

Gen. Kelley believes the new detachment will bring a lot more to the table than simply its special operations trained-and-equipped air-ground-intelligence components. Like Vela, he says the individual Marine is the key.

"The most significant force multiplier that the Marine Corps can provide to appropriate special operations is a superbly trained and motivated Marine, one fortified by 230 years of enviable history and tradition," Kelley says.

A former U.S. Marine infantry leader and paratrooper, W. Thomas Smith Jr. writes about military issues and has covered conflict in the Balkans and on the West Bank. He is the author of four books, and his articles appear in a variety of publications.


Brad's Sig:
Brad isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2005, 12:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
U.S. Marine ( FAST )

 
SR-25's Avatar
 
Group:
Second Lieutenant

Space Marine
SR-25Member is SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,131
Threads: 746
UserID: 193
User Info
United_States  marine_corps      

Patriotism
My current mood: Pissed
Reputation +/-Power: 6
Points: 18
SR-25 is on a distinguished road
SR-25Member is SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

Wasnt DET 1 started a couple years ago?


SR-25's Sig:Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


"Fallujans have now been offered a choice: hand over the outsiders or get blown apart by the world's most lethal killing machine, the U.S. Marines!"


"Heaven Won't Take Marines and Hell Is Afraid They'll Take Over."


US Marines: Travel agents to Allah.

Call your lawyer, I'll beat the shit out of him after I beat the fuck out of you!- Vin Diesel " A Man Apart"


Improvise, Adapt, Overcome ~SEMPER FI!~

SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2005, 12:38 PM   #3 (permalink)

Marine

Semper Fi!
knucklehead

 
Grimmy's Avatar
 
Group:
Staff Advisor

GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
AKA: Mac
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: California
Posts: 6,391
Threads: 428
UserID: 189
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  pisces  chinese_buffalo

Patriotism
My current mood: Grumpy
Reputation +/-Power: 24
Points: 1334
Grimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud of
GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

Started and finalized are two different things, SR-25.

This has been a "work in progress" for awhile but it sounds like they're getting set to design all the new forms, report sheets and other new paperwork papers that come with new units being formally and finally created.

-Mac


Grimmy's Sig:Our country! in her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country right or wrong!! ... Stephen Decatur, Toast

Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

» Support the Site!

Military Gear - Military Ltd Gear - Infantrymen Gear - Ranger Gear - Single Servicemen
Old 10-26-2005, 02:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
U.S. Marine ( FAST )

 
SR-25's Avatar
 
Group:
Second Lieutenant

Space Marine
SR-25Member is SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,131
Threads: 746
UserID: 193
User Info
United_States  marine_corps      

Patriotism
My current mood: Pissed
Reputation +/-Power: 6
Points: 18
SR-25 is on a distinguished road
SR-25Member is SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

Oh, my bad. I was under the impression that this unit had been fully operational for some time now.
SR-25 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 02:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Marine

 
SpongeJuan's Avatar
 
Group:
Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps

SpongeJuanMarine is SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Beaufort
Posts: 1,293
Threads: 63
UserID: 549
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  virgo  

Military_Support
My current mood: Overworked
Reputation +/-Power: 6
Points: 26
SpongeJuan is on a distinguished road
SpongeJuanMarine is SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

I thought so too
SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 03:22 PM   #6 (permalink)

Marine

Semper Fi!
knucklehead

 
Grimmy's Avatar
 
Group:
Staff Advisor

GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
AKA: Mac
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: California
Posts: 6,391
Threads: 428
UserID: 189
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  pisces  chinese_buffalo

Patriotism
My current mood: Grumpy
Reputation +/-Power: 24
Points: 1334
Grimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud of
GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

From what I've been able to read and understand (assuming that what I understood was what the writer meant to say), this unit has been in the field under "operational and conceptual testing" for awhile now.

What I believe is indicated by the article at the top is that this unit has finished that part of the birthing process and is now well on the way to becoming official and permenant.

-Mac
Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 03:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
Jugganaut Joe

 
ArchAngel's Avatar
 
Group:Vice Lieutenant

ArchAngelMember is ArchAngel isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
AKA: Jugganaut Joe
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 432
Threads: 45
UserID: 1051
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  pisces  chinese_snake

National_Rifle_Association
My current mood: Happy
Reputation +/-Power: 0
Points: 8
ArchAngel is an unknown quantity at this point
ArchAngelMember is ArchAngel isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

Do you guys like the idea of this? I remember hearing from alot of Marines that they don't approve of a "Special Force" in the Corps because no one is better then anyone and that Marines are elite by themselves.


I like the idea of having a unit thats up with the Berets and Seals, but I dunno. What do you guys think?

-Jugganaut Joe
ArchAngel isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 04:05 PM   #8 (permalink)

Marine

Semper Fi!
knucklehead

 
Grimmy's Avatar
 
Group:
Staff Advisor

GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
AKA: Mac
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: California
Posts: 6,391
Threads: 428
UserID: 189
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  pisces  chinese_buffalo

Patriotism
My current mood: Grumpy
Reputation +/-Power: 24
Points: 1334
Grimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud ofGrimmy has much to be proud of
GrimmyMember is Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

"shooters" can only become so good and Marine "shooters" are as good as any of those "hi profile" outfits. What this unit can bring to the table that no other outfit can is the complete, whole and total package.

A hi speed "shooter" unit with its own logistics, support and intel. Set it down anywhere and it'll do what ever needs be done. That's what this new unit is. Shooters backed up by inherant supply and logistics along with air assets and its own intel collection and processing assets. There's currently nothing even close to as complete a package deal as this new unit.

But that's just the USMC being the USMC. Put Marines down anywhere and they'll get it done, regardless.

-Mac
Grimmy isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2005, 06:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
Marine

 
SpongeJuan's Avatar
 
Group:
Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps

SpongeJuanMarine is SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Beaufort
Posts: 1,293
Threads: 63
UserID: 549
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  virgo  

Military_Support
My current mood: Overworked
Reputation +/-Power: 6
Points: 26
SpongeJuan is on a distinguished road
SpongeJuanMarine is SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

As long as they don't do something like giving them some sort of beret or cool patches and other gay gadgets I don't see anything wrong.
SpongeJuan isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2005, 06:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
SSGMike.Ivy
Guest

 
SSGMike.Ivy's Avatar
 
SSGMike.Ivy is
Posts: n/a
Threads: 2369
User Info
        

SSGMike.Ivy is  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

UPDATE: Novemeber 2,2005

Marines get OK for Special Forces

The Marine Corps is getting its own special operations command, and its headquarters and the bulk of the 2,600-strong force will be at Camp Lejeune, the Department of Defense announced Tuesday.


The command will include a special operations regiment, a unit that trains foreign troops and a support group. Part of the regiment will be stationed at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Some of the command's Marines will come from a Corps expansion authorized in the current federal budget, while others will come from existing units, said Maj. Douglas Powell, a Marine spokesman at the Pentagon.

There's no firm start date, but the command's first leader, Brig. Gen. Dennis J. Hejlik, has already been chosen. Hejlik not only has combat experience, but has served as chief of staff at U.S. Special Operations Command, an umbrella command that oversees Army, Navy and Air Force units -- and which also will include the new Marines force.

The new force is a natural, said said Daniel Goure, a defense analyst with the Lexington Institute, a think tank in Arlington, Va. For years, the Marines have trained and used troops for some special operations missions.

"What you've got is units that are already there, or nearly already there," he said. "This is a clear recognition of existing skills."

Also, he said, by maintaining a tight relationship with the Corps, the Marine special operations unit would avoid problems that special operations units in the other services report, such as little control over their transportation, problems with communications systems and issues getting backup from conventional troops with assets such as armored vehicles.

For years the Corps has been inching toward a full role in the special operations community, which is best known for the Army's Green Berets -- whose headquarters is at Fort Bragg -- and the Navy's SEALs. The U.S. Special Operations Command and the Marines signed a memorandum of agreement in November 2001 to start working together more.

Since then, said Powell, Marines have worked with special ops troops from other services everywhere from the mountains of Afghanistan to the streets of Fallujah.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the elite special operations units have been worked harder than at any point in history. While they've been getting increasingly more funding, Goure said, they've also been losing seasoned veterans to the Army's Delta Force and the Navy's SEAL Team 6. Those secretive anti-terrorist units, he said, are reportedly growing in size.

Also, many veteran special forces troops have been lured into the booming private security industry, where their skills can command salaries of more than $200,000 a year.

Meanwhile, the pool of Army, Navy and Air Force personnel who meet the rigorous requirements for recruits to special operations units has remained flat. So it makes sense, Goure said, to turn to the Marines, the one service that has an all-but untapped pool of troops who fit the requirements.

 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2005, 08:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
Marine
MSgt USMC Ret

 
USMCRET6391's Avatar
 
Group:
Lieutenant General

USMCRET6391Marine is USMCRET6391 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)
AKA: Top
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,545
Threads: 3537
UserID: 69
User Info
United_States  marine_corps  male  taurus  

My current mood: Happy
Reputation +/-Power: 16
Points: 276
USMCRET6391 is a jewel in the roughUSMCRET6391 is a jewel in the roughUSMCRET6391 is a jewel in the rough
USMCRET6391Marine is USMCRET6391 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  

Re: Marines go Special Forces

Marine Corps to create
special operations unit

By Christian Lowe
Times staff writer

For the first time since the establishment of U.S. Special Operations Command, the Marine Corps has been given the go-ahead to establish a unit to deploy alongside Navy SEALs, Army Special Forces and Air Force Special Tactics units for commando missions.

The final push for the Marine Corps to join the snake-eater community was delivered at an Oct. 28 meeting between SOCom chief Army Gen. Bryan Brown, Marine Commandant Gen. Mike Hagee and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

While the ultimate makeup of the Marine Corps’ SOCom component, or MarSOC, is still in the works, Marine officials say that roughly 2,700 leathernecks will be assigned to the command.

The component will be commanded by Brig. Gen. Dennis Hejlik, currently the deputy commander of I Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

“We’ve been working with SOCom … on coming up with ideas on how the Marine Corps could better support” the command, said Lt. Gen. Jan Huly, head of Plans, Policies and Operations at Marine headquarters, in a Nov. 1 interview.

“We finally came to the realization that unless we were a full partner in U.S. Special Operations Command we probably weren’t making maximum use of the Marine Corps’ capabilities.”

MarSOC will be made up of three main organizations: foreign military training units; a direct-action group dubbed Marine Special Operations Group, or MSOG; and an intelligence and support group.

The units are expected to begin integrating into SOCom within six months, possibly starting with the foreign military training units, Huly said.

The decision to create a MarSOC comes after several years of considerable effort on the part of SOCom, the Marine Corps and the Pentagon to build a Marine contribution to a community that has been heavily used since the war on terrorism began. The Marine Corps opted out of SOCom when the command was established in 1986, preferring to keep its small community of specialized units, such as Force Reconnaissance, for its own use.

But as the hunt for insurgents in Iraq and terrorists worldwide focuses more on small, covert raids and foreign military assistance, the Corps realized it was time to put aside its initial reluctance and support SOCom more directly.

“The decision that was made last week was a bold decision, but it’s a good and important decision made at the right time in history,” said Vice Adm. Eric Olson, deputy commander of SOCom, in the Nov. 1 interview.

“We have really progressed toward this in a deliberate way with a lot of discussion.”

-Top
USMCRET6391 isimli üyemiz çevrimdışıdır. (Offline)  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote