Get rid of those *&)(_)_**&& picturephones NOW

[KARL THE GRUNT]

Those **&(() cut off the heads of our people they capture..burn them alive and hang them from a bridge... and HQMC has their skivvies in a knot over this.?????

The Commandant should have told the pols to f87koff and had the Sgtmaj of the USMC call the Sgtmaj of that unit and have their gunny handle it.

Yes, they were stupid to put it on the net..but this is PC bullshit
You people had best get rid of those picture phones NOW.

Very annoyed
Karl

[ClutterbusterNY]

Karl, it would appear that you think it's perfectly okay to defile human corpses; and the only mistake made was leaving evidence (on YouTube)!
Forget about politicians or being politically correct! We all know this type of behavior was not taught at boot or anywhere else within the military.
These 4 Marines have shamed the flag, the country; put their fellow military members in even greater danger and thumbed their noses at all of humanity! You may not deal with individuals outside of our boarders, but I do and the actions of these 4 (soon to be ex-Marines) are indefensible!!!

[d'artangan]

Let me stick up for Karl, I don't think that's what he means. Members of the military learn that killing is not a fun thing, and we all learn to honor the dead. But anyone with the sense God gave a rock should know better than to document and publish a judgement error. Also, once one teenager ( and let's face it they are teenagers) starts acting stupid every other teen in the immediate area starts acting stupid. This is what Karl is lamenting. Acting stupid, then taking pictures to prove it.

Karl - Sorry if I overstepped my bounds.

[ClutterbusterNY]

Originally Posted by KARL THE GRUNT

Those **&(() cut off the heads of our people they capture..burn them alive and hang them from a bridge... and HQMC has their skivvies in a knot over this.?????

With all due respect to Karl and Old Don, Karl's first paragraph is very telling.
It is full of anger and some of the accusations of terrible things that happened to Americans occurred in Iraq, not Afghanistan. The contractors that were burned and strung up on the bridge was in Iraq. The Taliban do not operate in Iraq.
War cannot be about blind retribution.
Nick Berg was beheaded in Iraq by Al Qaeda, as was one of our soldiers. This occurred shortly after the infamous Abu Gharib photos surfaced.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinions Karl, but not your own facts!

It would seem natural and its okay for "arm chair generals" to get angry about what is happening on the front lines, but I've been told that in war, anger is your enemy and it must be deferred to a more appropriate time.

The military, and especially combat; is supposed to make men out of boys.

[d'artangan]

Having been participated in shooting, once the noise goes away, the adrenalin and fear take over. You need to celebrate being alive. The problem is, thinking goes out the window. I today's cyber age, out come the cell phones... If this hadn't gotten on YouTube nobody would have known about it.

The enemy is not AQ or the Taliban, it's people that are against our way of life. So the idiots in Iraq and the Taliban are the same guys. Please don't ever think differently. We are not facing a state, we are facing a culture hiding behind a religion.

[KARL THE GRUNT]

ClutterbusterNY..

Unless you,yourself have been in close ground combat over an extended period of time, you do not have the right or experience to judge those marines.

Take a look at the history of war..from Troy to now and you will find that it is not one of PC correctness.

In case you missed the point..I shall repeat it..I was discussing the culture of Islam and that culture is not limited to one nation.

The Taliban is not noted for it's gentle humanism.

The arrogance of the PC mind is astounding...we are going into a nation killing their people but as long as we give them candy bars and cookies..they are going to love us??????

That sir, is racist imperialism to a degree that would shock and embarrass Disraeli.

karl

No problem Old Don ..take care
karl

[ClutterbusterNY]

Karl,

I'm sorry you misinterpreted the points I made.
I appreciate the fact that you fought for my freedoms...now please let me
exercise my free speech! I did not "judge" those four Marines, I simply stated my opinions:
- They did not learn this behavior in boot.
- Their actions are indefensible to the outside world.
- It is a FACT that these types of actions are in violation of the Geneva
convention AND put our Troops in even more danger than they have
to be, i.e.
- Americans beheaded after release of Abu Ghraib photos came out!

PC is BS and we all know it. Uncivilized behavior is not to be applauded by anyone in any country under any circumstances.

You are not qualified to discuss the nature of Islam Karl, because you obviously do not know anything about it. How many Muslims do you know personally? Do you know the various sects of Islam and what they believe?
Do you know that the vast majority of Muslims around the world have no use for "radical Islam" and they denounce it every public forum? Do you realize that the fanatical extremists are in the minority? It only seems that there are a lot of them because their act of savagery take over the headlines. Why would American Muslims want to enter the service or help the US in any way if there is so much Islamophobia in this country. Why would immigrants be willing to put themselves in harm's way to serve as interpreters. The growing trend of constantly denouncing a given religion is not what our Founding Fathers had in mind and doe not serve the best interests of this country.

We have our own American brand of nuts who call themselves religious leaders, such as Terry Jones; the Florida preacher who burned copies of the Quran! That was big news all over the mid-east, but yet I know people there who are smart enough not to put all Christians in one basket. I don't believe we can should that with any race, nationality or religion.

Lastly, this is the last time I'm going to let you call me sir! I'm actually quite surprised at your lack of natural curiosity. Being a Marine and a history teacher, I cant understand why you have never even bothered to look at my profile since we have been commenting on each others' posts for 8 years now.

[KARL THE GRUNT]

Forgive me for the "sir" .It is almost automatic..I shall repent.
As to islam..I know its history and have my old copy of the Koran and have had it since the 70's. Islam and Christian have been in conflict since about 600 A.D.
Most of the Middle East was Christian and had been for 300 years when the Muslim armies conquered them. Islam ruled most of Spain for almost 700 years and indeed were only stopped at Tours by Charles Martel..if not for that, we would in a Mosque now.
Islam went into decline in 1492 when the trade routes changed to the Atlantic that and the constant civil war between Sunni..Shitta and Fatimid into that toss the Ottoman and a few others. The Koran requires that the word of the Mohammad be spread peacefully if possible by the sword if required. I know..I know Christians have done that as well Charlemagne and the Saxons...but the Christ did not TELL them to do it. Mohammad did order his followers to do so.
Islam had been in decline but now with oil wealth and power it is on the rise, for the first time in 100 years. Look at the people coming to power in Arab Springs..they are not secular humanists.
Homework:
Reading: The Koran and "The Middle East" by Lewis.

Islam is in many ways a fine religion and once I almost became a follower..I was tired of the peace and love dished out by my church in the 70's...but in those days I liked wine.